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	<title>Comments for trinityspokane.org</title>
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	<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org</link>
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		<title>Comment on join the advent conspiracy by Fr. Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2008/11/26/join-the-advent-conspiracy/comment-page-1/#comment-687</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trinityspokane.org/?p=719#comment-687</guid>
		<description>Dear Devon,
Thanks for the note!  Yes, we included a link within the original post to the &quot;gifts for life&quot; page on the er-d site.  Great stuff!  
Thanks for your good work!
Peace,
Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Devon,<br />
Thanks for the note!  Yes, we included a link within the original post to the &#8220;gifts for life&#8221; page on the er-d site.  Great stuff!<br />
Thanks for your good work!<br />
Peace,<br />
Paul</p>
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		<title>Comment on Entering Lent &#8212; Finding our Treasure, Finding our Heart by Chase</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/02/23/entering-lent-finding-our-treasure-finding-our-heart/comment-page-1/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityspokane.org/?p=17#comment-475</guid>
		<description>Apparently a year has passed since you first wrote this, but I find this especially meaningful for me, now. I am in constant competition with the world around me (although most others don&#039;t know) and it drains me quietly. 

Here is a modified version prayer I keep in my wallet on this subject:

I am so weary of using myself as the measure of everything and everyone. For this day, and from this day forward, help me to find release from the old pattern of seeing the different-from-me as either less-than or more-than me. Instead grant that I may see everything and everybody in terms of how I want you to see me at the days end, from this day and forevermore. Amen. 

What a perfect time to find words that have sat quietly on the internet for a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently a year has passed since you first wrote this, but I find this especially meaningful for me, now. I am in constant competition with the world around me (although most others don&#8217;t know) and it drains me quietly. </p>
<p>Here is a modified version prayer I keep in my wallet on this subject:</p>
<p>I am so weary of using myself as the measure of everything and everyone. For this day, and from this day forward, help me to find release from the old pattern of seeing the different-from-me as either less-than or more-than me. Instead grant that I may see everything and everybody in terms of how I want you to see me at the days end, from this day and forevermore. Amen. </p>
<p>What a perfect time to find words that have sat quietly on the internet for a year.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mardi Gras celebration &amp; Ash Wednesday observances by Chase</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2008/01/30/mardi-gras-celebration-ash-wednesday-observances/comment-page-1/#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator>Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trinityspokane.org/2008/01/30/mardi-gras-celebration-ash-wednesday-observances/#comment-474</guid>
		<description>Great reflection on why this season exists. It&#039;s so easy to think of it only in terms of &quot;it&#039;s time for me to give something up.&quot; I appreciate the chance to reflect more deeply on my spiritual alienation from God and the ever present mercy despite that. It&#039;s so easy to blame the alienation on myself and be blind to the deeper implications of that and the mercy that is always accompanying it, whether or not I am aware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great reflection on why this season exists. It&#8217;s so easy to think of it only in terms of &#8220;it&#8217;s time for me to give something up.&#8221; I appreciate the chance to reflect more deeply on my spiritual alienation from God and the ever present mercy despite that. It&#8217;s so easy to blame the alienation on myself and be blind to the deeper implications of that and the mercy that is always accompanying it, whether or not I am aware.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Book Group Reflections &#8212; &#8216;Opening the Bible&#8217; by Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/#comment-465</guid>
		<description>1.  I&#039;ve been an obsessive reader of the Bible for nine years now.  Raised as a Baptist, I was socialized to believe that being a Christian meant, among other things, being familiar with &quot;the Word of God.&quot;  Once I got some history under my belt, I realized that my particular understanding of knowing the Bible was not what Christians had been accustomed to in years prior to, as Chase mentioned, Gutenberg and the Protestant Reformation.  Now that Protestantism has made Christianity a much more &lt;i&gt;democratic&lt;/i&gt; undertaking -- and that&#039;s something I think we just find ourselves in, for good or ill -- being familiar with the Bible &lt;i&gt;ought to be&lt;/i&gt; as essential to being a Christian, culturally speaking, as being familiar with rhetoric was essential for the men who carried out civil affairs in the ancient Greek city-state.

I am often appalled at the lack of familiarity people have with the Bible, but that sense of horror comes only when this lack of biblical knowledge comes from the stringent believers who assert dogma without having read it for themselves.  A democratic Protestant at the core, I suppose, I believe that one ought to inform oneself before presuming to speak in public or ecclesiastical forums.  I hope I&#039;m not being overly biased by the fact that I&#039;m an English major -- all I do is read books.  By the same token, I should not be complacent, either; the Bible yields much reward for further study.  Just because I&#039;m familiar with it doesn&#039;t mean I should stop.

2.  Practically speaking, of course one can be a Christian without reading the Bible.  It happens all the time.  I said that biblical education &lt;i&gt;ought to be&lt;/i&gt; as essential to being Christian as rhetorical education was for the citizens of the Greek polis.  Here&#039;s why I say that: none of us would know Jesus except for the texts that speak of him; same goes for Yahweh.  Harold Bloom in his book on Shakespeare said that Jews and Christians worship literary characters -- the Jews the Yahweh of the Tanakh, Christians the Yahweh of the Tanakh and the Jesus of the Gospels.  That may be too reductionist, but I would add, too, what the Apostle Paul once said, that spiritual conviction about Christ comes through rhetoric (I have in mind Romans 10).  The word &lt;i&gt;faith&lt;/i&gt; there is pistis, which was the word for &quot;persuasion&quot; or &quot;conviction&quot; in the Greek rhetorical manuals.  At bottom, our faith is formed by rhetoric and by literature.  None of us could be Christian apart from the literature or the preaching, pure and simple.

The biblical model for engendering and nurturing faith -- I don&#039;t think I&#039;m being too monolithic here -- is the recitation of God&#039;s deeds, even if one has been witness first hand to those deeds.  This is true in the Tanakh (e.g., Deuteronomy 6, Psalms passim) as well as in the New Testament.  Our faith in God, if we are a part of the Christian community, is based on preaching the word.  Not that faith is purely intellectual, no more than rhetoric is purely logical; there are also pathetic and ethical appeals -- precisely because, I think, there are pathetic and ethical concerns we have as human beings.  The Hebrews stressed the ethical appeals a good deal, i.e., God can be &lt;i&gt;trusted&lt;/i&gt;, because the character of God was a basic component of what it meant to &quot;trust&quot; God.  If Samuel Johnson was right that we need to be reminded more often than we need to be instructed, then being a Christian means hanging around the community&#039;s words about God -- the Bible is ground zero for faith-shaping Christian rhetoric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  I&#8217;ve been an obsessive reader of the Bible for nine years now.  Raised as a Baptist, I was socialized to believe that being a Christian meant, among other things, being familiar with &#8220;the Word of God.&#8221;  Once I got some history under my belt, I realized that my particular understanding of knowing the Bible was not what Christians had been accustomed to in years prior to, as Chase mentioned, Gutenberg and the Protestant Reformation.  Now that Protestantism has made Christianity a much more <i>democratic</i> undertaking &#8212; and that&#8217;s something I think we just find ourselves in, for good or ill &#8212; being familiar with the Bible <i>ought to be</i> as essential to being a Christian, culturally speaking, as being familiar with rhetoric was essential for the men who carried out civil affairs in the ancient Greek city-state.</p>
<p>I am often appalled at the lack of familiarity people have with the Bible, but that sense of horror comes only when this lack of biblical knowledge comes from the stringent believers who assert dogma without having read it for themselves.  A democratic Protestant at the core, I suppose, I believe that one ought to inform oneself before presuming to speak in public or ecclesiastical forums.  I hope I&#8217;m not being overly biased by the fact that I&#8217;m an English major &#8212; all I do is read books.  By the same token, I should not be complacent, either; the Bible yields much reward for further study.  Just because I&#8217;m familiar with it doesn&#8217;t mean I should stop.</p>
<p>2.  Practically speaking, of course one can be a Christian without reading the Bible.  It happens all the time.  I said that biblical education <i>ought to be</i> as essential to being Christian as rhetorical education was for the citizens of the Greek polis.  Here&#8217;s why I say that: none of us would know Jesus except for the texts that speak of him; same goes for Yahweh.  Harold Bloom in his book on Shakespeare said that Jews and Christians worship literary characters &#8212; the Jews the Yahweh of the Tanakh, Christians the Yahweh of the Tanakh and the Jesus of the Gospels.  That may be too reductionist, but I would add, too, what the Apostle Paul once said, that spiritual conviction about Christ comes through rhetoric (I have in mind Romans 10).  The word <i>faith</i> there is pistis, which was the word for &#8220;persuasion&#8221; or &#8220;conviction&#8221; in the Greek rhetorical manuals.  At bottom, our faith is formed by rhetoric and by literature.  None of us could be Christian apart from the literature or the preaching, pure and simple.</p>
<p>The biblical model for engendering and nurturing faith &#8212; I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m being too monolithic here &#8212; is the recitation of God&#8217;s deeds, even if one has been witness first hand to those deeds.  This is true in the Tanakh (e.g., Deuteronomy 6, Psalms passim) as well as in the New Testament.  Our faith in God, if we are a part of the Christian community, is based on preaching the word.  Not that faith is purely intellectual, no more than rhetoric is purely logical; there are also pathetic and ethical appeals &#8212; precisely because, I think, there are pathetic and ethical concerns we have as human beings.  The Hebrews stressed the ethical appeals a good deal, i.e., God can be <i>trusted</i>, because the character of God was a basic component of what it meant to &#8220;trust&#8221; God.  If Samuel Johnson was right that we need to be reminded more often than we need to be instructed, then being a Christian means hanging around the community&#8217;s words about God &#8212; the Bible is ground zero for faith-shaping Christian rhetoric.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Book Group Reflections &#8212; &#8216;Opening the Bible&#8217; by Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-464</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/#comment-464</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughts Chase.  As Paul would say, &quot;let&#039;s unpack that&quot; at coffee next Wednesday!

My personal thought is that yes, you can certainly be a Christian without reading the Bible, but I think Bible study is an essential part of Christian growth.  I&#039;m almost done with &quot;Opening the Bible&quot; and it has made me excited about Bible study.  The richness of the stories and translations and historical context and different interpretations makes it more of an adventure book than the dry, weird scripture that I thought it was.  I know I&#039;m being totally cheesy, but truly, this is exciting stuff!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts Chase.  As Paul would say, &#8220;let&#8217;s unpack that&#8221; at coffee next Wednesday!</p>
<p>My personal thought is that yes, you can certainly be a Christian without reading the Bible, but I think Bible study is an essential part of Christian growth.  I&#8217;m almost done with &#8220;Opening the Bible&#8221; and it has made me excited about Bible study.  The richness of the stories and translations and historical context and different interpretations makes it more of an adventure book than the dry, weird scripture that I thought it was.  I know I&#8217;m being totally cheesy, but truly, this is exciting stuff!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Book Group Reflections &#8212; &#8216;Opening the Bible&#8217; by Chase Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>Chase Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/#comment-463</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, I&#039;m with Mary in a huge lack of knowledge. In fact, if I had to identify where most of my theological speculations come from, it would be secondary sources (commentary etc) as well as observation/reason. 

Although the bible is central to the Christian faith, I think the fact that so many of us don&#039;t have a solid grasp of it and yet consider ourselves to be Christians should be cause for us to be more open minded about other religions and their connection to the ultimate. Why should our book be considered the only gateway if so many of us don&#039;t study it and yet consider ourselves to be linked to the ultimate?  And then the question is, do you mean Christian in the sense of the organized religion, in the sense of believing in Christ, or in the sense of following the path of Jesus defined by the actions he calls us to take. 

So for the first two, the answer is yes post-guttenburg and with translations of the bible into other languages. The bible contains the key elements of faith as they relate to the story of Christ and is essential in understanding who Christ was, the context of what he did, and the essence of the message he was trying to communicate. 

If Christ&#039;s actions and call to action, his love, are what is the essence of Christianity, I suppose the lingering question is can a complete revelation occur outside of the Bible, perhaps through ones personal experience, reason, and through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (a mystic or prophetic revelation). I wouldn&#039;t rule it out, but I (personally) won&#039;t rely on it either. 

Perhaps I am hashing words and hoping Christianity can be the unifying religion rather than one of the religions that is unified under another meta-religion, which would make the bible secondary to the essence of Christianity unless we want to diminish  the importance of all other Holy Books. What can I say, I root for the home team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, I&#8217;m with Mary in a huge lack of knowledge. In fact, if I had to identify where most of my theological speculations come from, it would be secondary sources (commentary etc) as well as observation/reason. </p>
<p>Although the bible is central to the Christian faith, I think the fact that so many of us don&#8217;t have a solid grasp of it and yet consider ourselves to be Christians should be cause for us to be more open minded about other religions and their connection to the ultimate. Why should our book be considered the only gateway if so many of us don&#8217;t study it and yet consider ourselves to be linked to the ultimate?  And then the question is, do you mean Christian in the sense of the organized religion, in the sense of believing in Christ, or in the sense of following the path of Jesus defined by the actions he calls us to take. </p>
<p>So for the first two, the answer is yes post-guttenburg and with translations of the bible into other languages. The bible contains the key elements of faith as they relate to the story of Christ and is essential in understanding who Christ was, the context of what he did, and the essence of the message he was trying to communicate. </p>
<p>If Christ&#8217;s actions and call to action, his love, are what is the essence of Christianity, I suppose the lingering question is can a complete revelation occur outside of the Bible, perhaps through ones personal experience, reason, and through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (a mystic or prophetic revelation). I wouldn&#8217;t rule it out, but I (personally) won&#8217;t rely on it either. </p>
<p>Perhaps I am hashing words and hoping Christianity can be the unifying religion rather than one of the religions that is unified under another meta-religion, which would make the bible secondary to the essence of Christianity unless we want to diminish  the importance of all other Holy Books. What can I say, I root for the home team.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Book Group Reflections &#8212; &#8216;Opening the Bible&#8217; by Mary Brim</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Brim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/12/04/book-group-reflections-opening-the-bible/#comment-462</guid>
		<description>All right, let&#039;s see how this new way posting works.  I&#039;ve only read the first chapter up to now, and so far, am enjoying it.  I identify with Ferlo&#039;s comments about Episcopalians being more than hesitant to read/study the bible outside of church.  So, here are some starter questions:
1. Does anybody feel comfortable with their knowledge of the Bible?  I know I certainly don&#039;t.  I&#039;m your classic cradle Episcopalian who has never invested real time into studying the actual Bible.  I would really like to though.  I see the importance of it, not only on a personal level, but on an evangelical level.  When talking to my friends, coworkers, family about how being a Christian is integral to my life they expect a certain amount of knowledge from me regarding the Bible.  And if/when they don&#039;t see that in me, I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m not taken seriously.  Wherever I end up next in my life, ie next year, I hope to find a bible study group.
2. How important do you feel the Bible is to your actively being a Christian?  Can you be Christian without reading the Bible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All right, let&#8217;s see how this new way posting works.  I&#8217;ve only read the first chapter up to now, and so far, am enjoying it.  I identify with Ferlo&#8217;s comments about Episcopalians being more than hesitant to read/study the bible outside of church.  So, here are some starter questions:<br />
1. Does anybody feel comfortable with their knowledge of the Bible?  I know I certainly don&#8217;t.  I&#8217;m your classic cradle Episcopalian who has never invested real time into studying the actual Bible.  I would really like to though.  I see the importance of it, not only on a personal level, but on an evangelical level.  When talking to my friends, coworkers, family about how being a Christian is integral to my life they expect a certain amount of knowledge from me regarding the Bible.  And if/when they don&#8217;t see that in me, I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m not taken seriously.  Wherever I end up next in my life, ie next year, I hope to find a bible study group.<br />
2. How important do you feel the Bible is to your actively being a Christian?  Can you be Christian without reading the Bible?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Monthly men&#8217;s and women&#8217;s nights out by Walt Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/10/04/monthly-mens-and-womens-nights-out/comment-page-1/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityspokane.org/2007/10/04/monthly-mens-and-womens-nights-out/#comment-357</guid>
		<description>October 7 ??? is ages ago.  what about December?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>October 7 ??? is ages ago.  what about December?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Monthly men&#8217;s and women&#8217;s nights out by Walt Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/10/04/monthly-mens-and-womens-nights-out/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityspokane.org/2007/10/04/monthly-mens-and-womens-nights-out/#comment-356</guid>
		<description>The women&#039;s night out has changed to a new location for this past Sunday and next month to the Bankok Thai restaurant near Gonzaga. See St. John&#039;s announcement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The women&#8217;s night out has changed to a new location for this past Sunday and next month to the Bankok Thai restaurant near Gonzaga. See St. John&#8217;s announcement.</p>
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		<title>Comment on young adults and evangelism, by the rev. steve woolley by Brandon Barnes</title>
		<link>http://www.trinityspokane.org/2007/11/02/young-adults-and-evangelism-by-the-rev-steve-woolley/comment-page-1/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityspokane.org/2007/11/02/young-adults-and-evangelism-by-the-rev-steve-woolley/#comment-345</guid>
		<description>If form follows function, then I guess we have to ask ourselves, &quot;What is it that we want to accomplish by evangelism?&quot;  Unlike evangelicals -- who have unfortunately co-opted the term evangelism -- we&#039;re not out to induce (create?) a spiritual crisis in another individual and bring them to a born-again experience.  We&#039;re seeking to inspire hope and faith in others, but we will not be doing so anonymously.  We do it &quot;in the name of Christ.&quot;  We offer Christ.  We offer God.  We offer a fellowship in which the Spirit can warm the hearts of people who search for meaning.  

What&#039;s contributed to the problems of evangelical evangelism is that it seeks a prescribed, predetermined end -- a soul &quot;won&quot; for Christ.  With that comes a strong anxiety for the evangelist and not a little frustration when that happens.  Compounded with the huge anxieties evangelicals feel over the society around them, it&#039;s bound to come off wrong, however well-intentioned it may be.

One thing we cannot do in seeking to reconstruct evangelism is to construct a programmatic model for it.  We can&#039;t know most days where we&#039;ll be from one hour to the next; life &quot;happens.&quot;  So, too, does God.  &quot;The Spirit blows where it wills,&quot; and our only duty (to call it that) is to remain continuously open to new situations, experiences and meeting with new people.  If we are happy with the faith we have found (of whatever flavor) in Christ, then that contentment will commend itself to others far better than any crisis-ridden rhetoric that has been perfected to a frenzy by this very vocal members of the Christian Right.  

My own anxieties caused by the over-misrepresentation of Jesus in this country makes me very leery of the term &quot;evangelism.&quot;  But, you&#039;re right, Paul, we have to reclaim it and &quot;model&quot; it for others.  It will take our collective imaginations and spiritual strength to forge a better way.  I tend to favor spotanaeity over programmatic revivalism, and I hope that&#039;s just not reaction formation from past experiences at work.  I rely on the insight of others in our community of faith while also doing my best to bring something to the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If form follows function, then I guess we have to ask ourselves, &#8220;What is it that we want to accomplish by evangelism?&#8221;  Unlike evangelicals &#8212; who have unfortunately co-opted the term evangelism &#8212; we&#8217;re not out to induce (create?) a spiritual crisis in another individual and bring them to a born-again experience.  We&#8217;re seeking to inspire hope and faith in others, but we will not be doing so anonymously.  We do it &#8220;in the name of Christ.&#8221;  We offer Christ.  We offer God.  We offer a fellowship in which the Spirit can warm the hearts of people who search for meaning.  </p>
<p>What&#8217;s contributed to the problems of evangelical evangelism is that it seeks a prescribed, predetermined end &#8212; a soul &#8220;won&#8221; for Christ.  With that comes a strong anxiety for the evangelist and not a little frustration when that happens.  Compounded with the huge anxieties evangelicals feel over the society around them, it&#8217;s bound to come off wrong, however well-intentioned it may be.</p>
<p>One thing we cannot do in seeking to reconstruct evangelism is to construct a programmatic model for it.  We can&#8217;t know most days where we&#8217;ll be from one hour to the next; life &#8220;happens.&#8221;  So, too, does God.  &#8220;The Spirit blows where it wills,&#8221; and our only duty (to call it that) is to remain continuously open to new situations, experiences and meeting with new people.  If we are happy with the faith we have found (of whatever flavor) in Christ, then that contentment will commend itself to others far better than any crisis-ridden rhetoric that has been perfected to a frenzy by this very vocal members of the Christian Right.  </p>
<p>My own anxieties caused by the over-misrepresentation of Jesus in this country makes me very leery of the term &#8220;evangelism.&#8221;  But, you&#8217;re right, Paul, we have to reclaim it and &#8220;model&#8221; it for others.  It will take our collective imaginations and spiritual strength to forge a better way.  I tend to favor spotanaeity over programmatic revivalism, and I hope that&#8217;s just not reaction formation from past experiences at work.  I rely on the insight of others in our community of faith while also doing my best to bring something to the table.</p>
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